And it's back.

Uh... enjoy?

Catholic-cats, HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Actually, considering I'm no fan of Catholicism, I'm sure pussybending and I would even have disagreements amongst ourselves.

hahahaha
i'm intrigued by catholicism... like, not necessarily in a good way, but i don't hate it or anything either.

One post in and there's already division within our ranks!


Don't worry, I'm no "super-catholic", I have more friends that are atheist than christians (though my best friend in college is a fellow Catholic) and I'm pretty lenient with what others do. It's all just a different interpretation of God's word.



I just believe that the sacraments are important and your general disregard of them is wrong.

I have a close friend who is a very lax catholic. His views on life/politics/and such are the closest to mine of all my friends. I have some super-Christian friends. You know, the hypocritical, annoying types.

yay me.

My biggest beef with Catholicism is that they place man-made traditions almost on the same level as God's Word. None of those rituals and so forth are found in the Bible (at least not the real Bible--your wacky added books don't count ), and placing Mother Mary on such a high pedestal as to pray to her is just weird and sacrilegious as far as I'm concerned. Just because she birthed the Savior does not mean she's near deity or some high holy being who can magically receive prayers and act as some kind of divine guiding force. I don't know exactly what Catholics believe about Mary, but the act of praying to her alone is odd and non-biblical. Then let's not forget how in the early Roman Catholic church, so many of the leaders used their positions for political gain, and didn't even properly preach what was out of the Bible, seeing as how it was in Latin and churchgoers weren't allowed to read it anyway. Thank God for the reformers who allowed the truth of the book to be spread and known amongst common men.

Also, I admit I don't know too well about the sacraments and what they are, but I do know that baptism and communion are two of them. How you can say that these are ignored by Protestant churches is a very misinformed opinion. Jesus commanded all His believers to be baptized, and communion is one thing we must do on a regular basis as to be reminded of His sacrifice. But as far as I know, Catholics (and indeed many Protestants) believe that these two acts are necessary for salvation. Not once does the Bible ever say such a thing; in regards to baptism it speaks of baptism by fire, and the receiving of the Holy Spirit. As I understand it this is accomplished by accepting Christ into one's own heart, and that water baptism is a symbol of that very faith, an outward expression to those around so that they may know you believe, and so forth. It's a thing commanded us by God, but not necessary for salvation.

Speaking of using the church for power/gain...

Wasn't it Henry VIII that started a new church so he could get a divorce?

Yeah, Henry VIII created another religion that was exactly the same as Catholicism all because he needed a male heir.


And Abby, a couple of things. First off Mary is the mother of God and was without original sin. She's never placed before God but she deserves thanks and praise. And all the protestant religions allow for you to have any sacrament you want, which I don't agree with this idea of picking and choosing what Sacraments you follow (outside of Priesthood vs. Marraige) just isn't right to me. I know people don't agree and that's there idea, I don't agree with it but oh well, we're still Christians in the end.

I don't get the whole Jesus is God thing. He was two different entities at the same time?

Where are you getting this notion that Mary was without original sin? Never once have I read the Bible state such a thing, so it must be extrabiblical. She's not some supreme being; she's a regular ol' person like you or I, but was chosen by God to birth the incarnation of Christ.

The sacraments are also not culled from the Bible; there are passages mentioning things like baptism and communion, but never once does the Bible say or imply, "Do this or you shan't be saved." Catholicism is a very ritualistic religion, when Christianity was meant to do away with all of the rituals used in Judaism. The New Testament speaks of salvation being obtained not by works but by faith. That doesn't mean we can accept Christ and just be lazy and never do anything, and good works will come from a solid foundation in Christ, but there is absolutely nothing we as humans can do to obtain salvation, and this includes performing any kind of man-made rituals. (Again: man-made, because they aren't in the Bible--God's revelation to mankind.)

As for Jesus being God, it's not really something we can fully comprehend on this earth, and there are those who believe that those in heaven will truly understand God, but I don't believe that's so either. To take away the mystery of God would in a sense put us on equal terms with Him. The Bible (not just the NT, since the OT mentions God in a plural sense as well) teaches that God is one being but made of three different personalities. They're each individuals, but equally God. This could mean that you and I are both human but separate individuals, so likewise are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all of them being God; or something beyond what we can understand--three different beings but simultaneously one, which this latter belief is what I adhere to. Something impossible to understand? Sure, but so is God existing before time and the universe, having no beginning and no end. Where did God come from? It's a mystery.

So there's God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and the NT teaches that the three of them work in union with each other. Certain passages of the Bible explain how when God created man, He did not do so to receive or present love, because it claims that God's love is perfect in itself within the Godhead--all three persons of God love each other, so they give and they receive. But creating man was an act of God's glory, so that man might look to Him and give Him praise, but also that He might give His love to the world.

It's a complex concept, and we'll never fully understand it. One simplified but perhaps flawed way of looking at it is the example of water. It has three forms: liquid, solid, and gaseous. Some like to explain the Trinity (or rather, Triunity--three who are in unity) in this manner, but I don't think it really does well to describe this great mystery.

Abnormal Freak wrote:

Certain passages of the Bible explain how when God created man, he did not do so to receive or present love, because it claims that God's love is perfect in itself within the Godhead--all three persons of God love each other, so they give and they receive. But creating man was an act of God's glory, so that man might look to Him and give Him praise, but also that He might give His love to the world.

So God created man so someone, besides itself, could admire it?

That and also to give His love to us.

Some might call God narcissistic, but really, He created everything, and all the joy we feel and blessings we receive is all thanks to Him. He is the only holy being, meaning He's separate from sin and evil, and here we are, rolling around in the mud yet He loves us anyway.

might I ask what all the sacraments are then?

Baptism
Reconciliation
Communion
Confirmation
Matrimony
Priesthood (Holy Orders)
Anointing of the Sick

ah, thank you.
so these are like catholic requirements, so to speak?

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I was raised in an independent, fundamentalist, Baptist church.


I am an atheist now.

Baptism-Confirmation are more like strict guidelines than requirement, because as a Catholic you're supposed to do them but everything is set up so easy that just as long as you go to church and go to CCD afterwards (Sunday school basically), you'd go through them anyway. Reconciliation and the Eucharist (communion) happen with 2nd grade CCD, while Confirmation happens from either 8th grade or 9th grade CCD.

After that goes whenever you feel right, but technically you're supposed to get married when you grow up (to raise more Catholic children) or dedicate your life to the Church as it's servant to hold Mass or other duties, though only Priesthood is recognized (even though it covers many parts). The Catholic church allows people who aren't Catholic to be married in the church (well, one of the 2 has to be Catholic), but the non-Catholic spouse has to either convert to Catholicism or promise that any kids raised in the household is raised Catholic. Which causes a ton of problems if a Catholic and Eastern Orthodox get married.....

Anointing the Sick is when you're really ill and dying, to bless you.

oh, alright. thanks for the additional explanation.

I have an uncle who married a catholic vietnamese girl. he didn't convert, but they are raising their kids in the church.